.htaccess support

[OC2PS]

Michael Armstrong:
Eventually, OpenLiteSpeed will replace Standard Edition... We created OpenLiteSpeed to make a fully functional, high-performance web server that was also easier to use than Nginx. Enterprise Edition is all these things plus seamless Apache compatibility. It is this Apache compatibility (and stability) that our customers pay for. If we offered a free version with full .htaccess compatibility, we might get a lot a more users, but we would cut into our own market and all our products would die.

I see OpenLiteSpeed's "innovator's dilemma" with respect to .htaccess - Just like Kodak was scared of cannibalizing their cash-cow of chemical film (and lost the digital imaging wave despite having invented digital camera), LiteSpeed Tech are understandably worried about the fate of the paid/premium/enterprise product in face of the new, free, open source one.

That said, I am still stumped by this decision. It is understandable when they reserve control panel compatibility, mod security compatibility and page caching for the enterprise version. These seem like enterprise features, and things that customers pay for. Panels are important for enterprise environments, and page caching makes a massive impact on heavy sites and applications.

.htaccess, is not so understandable

• Since .htaccess compatibility was included in the free LiteSpeed Standard, we know that the risk of cannibalization of LiteSpeed Enterprise is minimal. (yes, I know there were additional limitations in Standard which are not there in OpenLiteSpeed)
• Lack of .htaccess compatibility in OpenLiteSpeed absolutely removes any incentive anyone might have to switch to OpenLiteSpeed. Folks don't get a big enough benefit in moving to OpenLiteSpeed from nginx (correct me if I am wrong), and folks looking to move from Apache go straight to nginx which is the 2nd biggest webserver by usage, is known to be speedy, and is recommended by the likes of WordPress and Drupal (not to mention, increasingly brought into public consciousness via press coverage like http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/09/nginx )

 

[eva2000]

I agree i'd like to see .htaccess file support

But only the file isn't supported apache rewrite syntax is supported see http://vbtechsupport.com/2204/ just add it via admin console.

 

[OC2PS]

Thanks George!

I am aware that the rewrite rules can be input via admin/config, which is good. But:
1. It makes LiteSpeed Tech's Apache compatibility ("if OpenLiteSpeed is Apache compatible then nobody will buy LiteSpeed Enterprise") even more facetious.
2. Just the whole updating config "everytime" (okay, maybe not EVERY time) I upload a php script ...think everytime I update WordPress, install a plugin or update a plugin...makes the whole thing not worth the pain of moving from nginx or Apache + Varnish.

 

[eva2000]

yeah i know, that's why i am digging into the OLS code to automate some of pre-sets for account setup so can load them via SSH commandline at install/setup time

i.e.

• http://openlitespeed.com/threads/openlitespeed-server-tweaks-script.52/
• http://openlitespeed.com/threads/why-not-dynamically-set-the-number-of-workers-at-install-time.48/
• http://openlitespeed.com/threads/how-often-does-build_admin_php-sh-php_version-get-updated.50/

haven't got to looking at htaccess and if it can be loaded via SSH command line yet

 

[OC2PS]

i am digging into the OLS code to automate some of pre-sets for account setup

Sweet!

htaccess ... if it can be loaded via SSH command line

Hope you get there soon

 

[lsmichael]

Sorry it's taken me so long to get back.

OC2PS, I don't see why you're stumped by the .htaccess decision. You summed up our rationale yourself:

LiteSpeed Tech are understandably worried about the fate of the paid/premium/enterprise product in face of the new, free, open source one.

You try to allay our worries by saying

Since .htaccess compatibility was included in the free LiteSpeed Standard, we know that the risk of cannibalization of LiteSpeed Enterprise is minimal. (yes, I know there were additional limitations in Standard which are not there in OpenLiteSpeed)

But I think you're underestimating how restrictive the limits on Standard are. 150 connections isn't much (if you're a high traffic site). This and the vhosts from Apache limit, I believe, are what keep Enterprise important.

The second argument is a valid point and one that we are wrestling with. There are technical issues involved, but, the biggest question is still: If we included .htaccess compatibility, how much of Enterprise's market would that cannibalize? I don't believe Standard is good enough evidence to prove that this wouldn't happen.

(Love these questions, though. I have to make more time for the forums again. Sorry everyone.)

m

 

[OC2PS]

I am stumped because that line of thinking never helped anyone, and there are some pretty damn smart people at LiteSpeed Tech, who presumably know/realize this.

I bet it's a tumultuous time at LiteSpeed Tech. And I bet you guys didn't just wake up one day and decide to go OpenSource. Being dropped by wordpress.com and wordpress.org probably hurt pretty bad. Further, the last couple of years don't seem to have been very kind. I seem to remember that PHP SAPI wasn't updated literally for years.

Now, the company is at crossroads. It wants to grow (or at least stem the decline) and maintain the current cash inflow. These are understandable goals. I can understand without commiserating or approving. The challenge that LiteSpeed Tech have to understand is that getting out of a jam like that isn't done by playing safe. You have to put yourself out there.

If I were running the company, then instead of trying to continue the business model of "freemium", but just adding open source i.e. free as in liberty to the free part, I would take a serious look at the possibility of remaking the company around alternative models, e.g.

• Making LiteSpeed completely OpenSource, but:
  • Selling plugins for it like
    • Page cache
    • Plesk plugin
    • cPanel plugin
    • SPDY plugin
  • Charging consulting fees from large customers
  • Selling documentation
  • Selling a Windows version
• etc

But I guess I have gone too far off-topic on this :-P

 

[lsmichael]

Hey OC2PS,

Sorry I haven't been around and sorry I can't write much more on this (partially because I can't reveal too much about our internal deliberations that haven't been finished, partially because I'm really under the gun for something we're trying to finish before cPanel conference in a week and a half): I just want to say, from the discussions I'm starting to hear, your arguments about .htaccess are being heard. Ideas are always a good thing, even ideas that don't get used. Keep up the conversation both here and on the Google Group. (If anyone is looking to affect the development direction of OpenLiteSpeed, the Google Group may be more read within LiteSpeed Tech, by the way.)

I'll be back in touch more with everyone once this next project gets finished.

Cheers,

Michael

 

[Slavik]

Hey OC2PS,

Sorry I haven't been around and sorry I can't write much more on this (partially because I can't reveal too much about our internal deliberations that haven't been finished, partially because I'm really under the gun for something we're trying to finish before cPanel conference in a week and a half): I just want to say, from the discussions I'm starting to hear, your arguments about .htaccess are being heard. Ideas are always a good thing, even ideas that don't get used. Keep up the conversation both here and on the Google Group. (If anyone is looking to affect the development direction of OpenLiteSpeed, the Google Group may be more read within LiteSpeed Tech, by the way.)

I'll be back in touch more with everyone once this next project gets finished.

Cheers,

Michael

Hi Michael,

I'm going to echo OC2PS here, and think some research your end would make the decision quite easy. I'm sure you guys have access to stats which will show how many enterprise users are panel (Plesk, cpanel etc) users vs those who are not.

The point being, I don't imagine htaccess support will damage your enterprise sales at all, afterall, if the webmasters are already managing a baremetal server with no panel, it would make sence that they are also capable of using nginx or lighttpd and their own re-write structures, without the cost of a LiteSpeed license.

At a guess, I would say that 90%+ of your Enterprise customers, use LiteSpeed for the easy panel integration and more importantly, the enterprise support, opposed to people running bare-metal web servers wanting htaccess support, which is what OLS apears to be geared towards.

The same goes for the caching, with options such as memcached, APC, Zend Opcode, Varnish etc all available, I would argue that bundling the LiteSpeed Cache in with OLS could bring only benefits to the project as a whole also.

Cheers

Slav

 

[KNocks]

Why is Slavik from XenForo an administrator here? I'm confused.

Anyway, I lease a dedicated managed server from WiredTree for $280/mo. I run about 30 to 40 sites and am possibly overpaying for the hardware but I like being prepared for the future and learning the ins and outs of having my own server at my own pace.

WiredTree has been selling me HARD on paying an extra $15/mo for LiteSpeed and I have refused every time. However, I'm also getting tired of taking the performance hit with Apache, especially during traffic spikes, and am now at crossroads. I have tried nginx before but it didn't play nicely with the pretty complex .htaccess rules I already had in place, so I went back to Apache. You guys could have me as a customer who would potentially pay for extra features as the business grows, but at this point I am not paying extra money for server software. .htaccess caching (and compatibility) would have been the biggest reason to switch to OpenLiteSpeed, but without it I might as well go back to nginx.

 

[lsmichael]

Why is Slavik from XenForo an administrator here? I'm confused.

Because @Slavik seems to enjoy starting forums in his spare time. Apparently, he's just a XenForo junkie and needs more all the time. He started the forum without even asking. (That was pretty great, by the way.)

As for the .htaccess question...

I'm also getting tired of taking the performance hit with Apache, especially during traffic spikes, and am now at crossroads. I have tried nginx before but it didn't play nicely with the pretty complex .htaccess rules I already had in place, so I went back to Apache.

It seems like $15/month is not such a big expense for something that will get you a lot more performance out of your hardware without the compatibility problems nginx presents. There's a reason they're selling you hard on it (and, believe me, they do not get a huge cut of licensing fee). It's because it will make you a much, much happier customer.

Now, with OpenLiteSpeed, you could get basically the same performance improvements for free, but you would have to do some configuring yourself (or pay a host to do so). We're going to be working on a way to include .htaccess files. It won't be as absolutely simple as with Enterprise, but it will be much easier than switching to nginx. Right now we're still putting together the API for building third party modules to OpenLiteSpeed, but once that is done, we'll be on to the .htaccess problem.

I would love to see you become a LiteSpeed user (OpenLiteSpeed or Enterprise). We do not plan to start offering Enterprise for free, but we will strive to make OpenLiteSpeed more .htaccess friendly for people who do not want to use Enterprise.

m